Starting Driving Manual

"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s) 06/20/2016 at 15:58 • Filed to: None

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I have a confession Oppo, I’ve been driving an automatic and I’ve only ever driven a manual around the block several times on multiple occasions.

Well, this past weekend, I procured a manual vehicle after lusting after one for so long. Now I’m trying to learn to drive it properly. I’ve started to learn the engagement point of the clutch and sort of have it. I just need to be quicker at finding it. So I’ve been basically getting it going in first and stopping and starting it again. I’ve also been trying to use the sort of steep driveway I have and going up it and back down to get used to hills.

So my question is, what else should I be doing in order to learn to drive the car?

Have a CWP BRZ for your time.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:00

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I’ll let allen iverson speak for me...

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:02

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Just drive it. I’ve found that the old sink or swim method of learning is best with manual. When you have to drive the manual in order to get where you need to go, you start to learn it quickly. Experience is the bets way to learn. You’ll begin to encounter different scenarios by just doing your normal commute/driving around, and learn from those.

What kinda car did you get?

PartyPooper2012 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:04

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I would learn on flat ground first. Going up hill without knowing engagement point on your clutch is bound to cause a burned out clutch.

That’s how I learned - on a flat long(ish) driveway. went backwards and forward in straight line pretty much till i learned.

Once you have mastered the launch, then you can master the hills.

Going up hill - to prevent car from rolling back, you may want to apply hand brake first, get to point of going and then release handbrake.

Going down hill, you may want to start from second... or just roll in neutral

djmt1 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:05

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Remember that putting your car in neutral is a thing.

Accept that stalling will happen.

Dominate your desire to look at the shifter.

Tripper > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 06/20/2016 at 16:05

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Thisallday

Urambo Tauro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:08

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I’ve started to learn the engagement point of the clutch and sort of have it. I just need to be quicker at finding it.

Speed comes naturally with experience. Just keep practicing and getting a feel for the engagement point. Don’t rush it. You’ll get faster automatically.

LongbowMkII > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 06/20/2016 at 16:10

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This. I tried teaching my partner how to drive stick in the Miata when we were dating which went... Poorly. When I bought the Cruze she decided that she was going to learn it come hell or high water and told me to drop her off at the park with it. 5 minutes later she was home. Within a couple months I didn't even have to bite my tongue any more. She's now a manual evangelist. Woo!

MGS315 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:14

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Practice practice practice.

Little tip, blend throttle in with clutch for smoother gear changes also known as rev matching. Hard to do but means you can take an age finding that bite point on the clutch and you’ll have baby’s bottom smooth changes. The key for a smooth change isn’t the clutch, it’s all in the throttle.

For training your foot into bite point, I’d say look for a slight incline. Ignore the throttle, just stick it in first and bring the clutch slowly to bite. Roll forward, then dip the clutch in a tad to stop. Bit more to roll back, come up again to stop. Off clutch a bit more to roll forward again. Repeat until you feel you can grab the bite in an instant.

EDIT: This will wear your clutch but hey you’re learning after all, it’s to be expected. No point having it completely engaged, you won’t be learning clutch control at all then.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > LongbowMkII 06/20/2016 at 16:14

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Yeah, I had learned to drive stick on both my parents’ Rav4 and a friend’s Tacoma when I was younger. However, I never really got good at it until I got rid of my automatic 4Runner for the FR-S. My first real drive in it was bringing the car home from the dealer, which was about 25 miles away. You start to learn real quick when you have to know how to drive it in order to get to work.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:15

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Just drive it and stop overthinking it. If you’re looking for the bite-point, you’ll never find it with today’s overboosted clutch pedals.

E90M3 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:16

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My M3 was the first car (and so far only) that is a stick. Pretty much just have to drive it and you’ll get better, I had driven a rental car 2000 km in Germany and France so I could drive stick when I got it, but just not very well.

Invinciblejets > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:34

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The way I always teach people is by just getting used to the grabbing point...

Don't even mess with the gas peddle. Just put it in first and release the clutch slowly just till it starts to move the car then push it right back to the floor. Keep practicing that and you won't stall and will be able to do it with out even thinking.

Svend > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:39

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Practice going up through the gears and down again. At first you’ll be a bit ‘notchy’ till your arm muscles memorise where the gears are and you’ll be a bit ‘jolty’ as the next gear engages but if you come off the accelerator a little (not much), then as you fully come off the clutch, apply more pressure to the accelerator again for a smooth gear change.

Also practice engine braking, let your engine do some of the work before you engage the brake pedal.

I’ve never driven an automatic but after three months driving a car with an automatic engaging/disengaging handbrake I’d imagine it wouldn’t take a lot more to drive an automatic.

smobgirl > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:44

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I did what InvincibleJets did. Also puttered around the neighborhood a LOT. We have stop signs every other block so it was lots of practice.

Also my sister and I devised a reward system where I got a point for every successful drive to a location without stalling. Every time I stalled, ALL the points went away and I had to start over. Once I got to 50 the challenge was done (and that’s pretty much when I got really comfortable driving the car). I forget what I was supposed to earn but I never got it. It was pretty silly since I’m an adult but it made me focus more on the “game” and less on the embarrassment of stalling.

d15b > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 06/20/2016 at 16:45

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This. Nothing will teach you how to accelerate when you find yourself in 5th gear on a highway offramp merge going about 25 mph.

Future next gen S2000 owner > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:48

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Nothing. Getting in and out of first on a hill is the hardest point. Try to focus on not rolling back and not slipping the clutch to much.

Just remember that when you panic stop, push the clutch in as well.

Rev matched downshifts will come once you get the basics down.

Textured Soy Protein > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 16:53

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Just do this.

Seriously though, there’s no real magic to it. Practice and you’ll get the feel for it. Once you’re good with basic starting, stopping, upshifting and downshifting, start working on rev matching and then heel-toeing.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 06/20/2016 at 17:11

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Thanks! I read further down and saw your experience was similar to mine. My first legitimate drive in a manual was home from the dealership. It was scary AF. It was about 20 miles from home and was far from deserted.

I got a Crystal White Pearl BRZ. I recall talking with you when I asked about the Toyobaru twins a while back and you definitely helped me pick the BRZ.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Textured Soy Protein 06/20/2016 at 17:15

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Thanks. Yeah I’ve been practicing over the weekend. I’ve sort of found where the clutch engages and feel a little comfortable with the car having to be put into gear. I’m just terrified of not being quick enough to get away from a stoplight. I’m hoping it’ll get better as I get more practice though.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > djmt1 06/20/2016 at 17:17

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Yeah, I’ve accepted stalling will happen. I’ve stalled a lot on the hill. I’m not even sure how those people who say they’ve never stalled even when learning were able to do it.

I think my biggest thing to overcome is my desire to look at the tachometer when I’m starting off to see the slight dip in RPMs to know when the clutch is catching.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Future next gen S2000 owner 06/20/2016 at 17:21

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Thanks! I’m slowly getting it to the point so I can sort of roll back minimally and get it up the hill with minimal RPM spikes. I’m surprised I’m not freaking out as much when rolling a tiny bit back as when I first started learning. I’m trying to practice every day after work. Hopefully I an get it so I’m able to consistently get up the hill without rolling back and/or stalling.

I’m surprised and thankful everyone on here has been so supportive. I was honestly expecting some flaming. Although I guess that’s what makes Oppo so amazing.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Invinciblejets 06/20/2016 at 17:23

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I’ve been doing that with reverse. And since I’m on a hill I’ll let it slightly dip in RPMs and then apply throttle to get back up the hill. I still need to get quicker at finding the engagement point though. I’m hoping that comes with more practice.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Urambo Tauro 06/20/2016 at 17:26

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Thanks! That actually makes me feel better. I was a little frustrated on the first night. But after I cleared my head and got some actual sleep I took it more slowly. I’m planning on practicing every day after work so hopefully like you said I’ll get quicker. You’ve all been so supportive.

Roadster Man > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 17:28

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Here is the most valuable piece of advice anyone has ever given me for learning to drive manual:

Go into a flat parking lot and put it in neutral. Clutch in, shift into first, and then SLOWLY lower the clutch pedal until you feel it grabbing and the car moves forward. push the clutch back down. Practice this about 100 times and you will have a good feel for the engagement point. try starting in first without pressing the throttle, just smoothly engaging the clutch to get the car moving. Then practice getting in and out of first gear.

Side tips:
-Don’t touch the shifter unless you are moving to another gear. Avoid resting your hand on the shifter, it can actually prematurely wear out the forks that press the collars engaging different gears. If you must drive one-handed, just rest your hand on the e-brake.

-DO NOT just hang around with the clutch disengaged(pressed in). This will cause undue wear on the throw-out bearing. If you are stopped for more than one second, just shift into neutral and back into first when it’s time to get started. It’s worth the minimal effort of moving your leg twice instead of just sticking the clutch pedal to the floor, causing damage to your throughout bearing.

-Don’t be a afraid to stall. But most beginners have the issue of not hitting the throttle enough. Don’t be scared of the “go” pedal.

Textured Soy Protein > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 17:28

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Go to a big parking lot, stop, put it in first, let the clutch out slowly until you feel it catch and the car starts moving forward. Repeat.

AM3R shamefully returns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 17:34

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Nice! Getting my 335i was my first manual daily driver, and you definitely will just get better by just driving it.

What car did you get?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > AM3R shamefully returns 06/20/2016 at 18:43

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Hey! I haven’t spoken to you in a while. How’s your e9x doing? Last time I think you were hunting down BBS wheels right?

Yeah, it sounds like I just need more practice. I’m actually pretty excited to practice which is a good thing I think? Just need to get quicker at getting it going from a stop. Also getting less scared of being too slow to get away from an intersection.

I got a white BRZ like the one pictured. Super stoked as it’s my first ever fun car.

The Lurktastic Opponaught > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 18:47

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Everyone has already gone over the basics, so I’m really just chiming in to wish you a fun time. And remember, no matter how cool the rev-matched downshifting-to-engine-braking sound is, clutch jobs are far more expensive than brake pads for new m/t drivers. Go ahead, ask me how I know.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Roadster Man 06/20/2016 at 18:48

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That’s great advice. I think I’ve sort of been doing that in a way. Since I’ll back out of the spot I’m in by letting the clutch catch and having it move on it’s own. Then stopping on the hill and having it drive back into the spot with throttle application. I’ve gotten decent at backing the car out.

It’s definitely hard to get over the fear of stalling. I’m slowly getting used to using the throttle to get the car moving as the clutch catches.

WRXerFish - WRX-Wing pilot > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 18:49

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The first week is probably the worst. After that it’s a piece of cake.

I got my first manual vehicle 2 years ago. I “knew” how to drive stick. I learned but only drove it a few times so I was bad at it and rode the clutch, slightly.

My suggestion would be to drive with the windows down and not use the A/C until you get more comfortable. I notice a huge difference with my boxer motor when the A/C is on.

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 19:49

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RoadsterMan’s pointers are all first-rate. Stick with what he advises.

Regarding hills - you really really REALLY need to know your vehicle to do a clean and smooth hill start. We’re talking months. In the meantime, this is what you do: while stopped, left-foot clutch, right-foot brake. Shift to first, engage hand brake. Move right-foot to the throttle. Add throttle while disengaging clutch to the friction point (you will feel like the car fight with itself a bit). Drop the hand brake while dumping the clutch, and you should launch with even moving a centimeter backwards.

Practice the maneuver several times on flat road before trying it on a hill, to get the sequence down. As you get better with your car, on gentle hills, you will be able to balance the drive train right on the friction point of the clutch without adding any throttle (no rolling back, no pulling forward). Once you can do that, you’re ready to do a hill launch without the hand brake. (At that point, you’ll know just where to hold the clutch, and then use just enough throttle to keep the car still, which will depend on the grade of the hill.)

Good luck to you!

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/20/2016 at 20:51

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Awesome! Congrats on the purchase! Now get out to some autox and track days. ;)

AM3R shamefully returns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/21/2016 at 00:18

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Congrats! Don’t see white too often on the BRZ. Looks great, very nice color for the car. Any planned mods?

And yeah, I finally tracked down the 4th wheel! The 335 has been great *knock on wood*. Hoping to get the wheels on soon. With it warming up so much lately I’ve been kind of worried about how hot the car is running, but it’s all normal. Just not used to seeing the temp gauge rise so quickly lol.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > AM3R shamefully returns 06/21/2016 at 02:32

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Thanks! I was looking for white specifically so I was pretty stoked when the dealer had one on the lot ready to go. No mods yet. Maybe just tint since it’s blazing hot here.

Nice! I love those wheels. What tires are you planning to mount on them?

Nauraushaun > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/21/2016 at 08:21

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My best advice is to listen to the car, to avoid stalling. If you’re launching and you hear the revs drop, counter it with some more throttle.

I’ve seen people try to learn by doing it all in one go - trying to hold the revs while they release the clutch without really paying attention to the car. You’ve gotta listen to those revs ;)

But it sounds like you’re getting there. Once you’re proficient, learn to rev-match by shifting gear and clutching up at the point where the revs are where they need to be for the gear you’ve chosen. So it’s seamless :)

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Nauraushaun 06/21/2016 at 10:01

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Thanks! I tried learning with the radio off so I could only focus on the engine sounds and the RPM drop. It definitely helped. I’ve started using the radio a bit now so I can get used to doing it by feel.

Definitely will be doing it one step at a time. Mostly getting the start down so I can get away quickly. Next I plan to start putting around the block and doing errands so I can get used to driving on the street.

AM3R shamefully returns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/21/2016 at 11:40

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Oh yeah, tint is always a good choice in my book. Looks good and is functional. It would suck having a black interior in the summer.

And do you have any performance all season recommendations? I usually go with continental DWS but Costco has BF goodrich G-force comp 2's on rebate, so it would only be $460 for the set of 4. I'm pretty much looking at $600-700 for any other good all season.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > AM3R shamefully returns 06/21/2016 at 12:30

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My car before the BRZ had black leather interior with no tint. Needless to say after a day of sitting in the sun the seats are scalding hot. My GF was not a fan when she wore a dress the first time she got in the car after a whole day at the beach. I’ve never had a tinted car before so I’m looking forward to it.

My recommendation would be the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3. I’ve heard they’re among the most grippy all seasons available. I have a coworker who got them in place of his usual Continental DWS for his s2k and has nothing but praise for them.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/21/2016 at 17:03

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Well done!

Just drive. A lot. I’d just make it a habit for a few weeks to drive an additional 30 minutes per day, in varying conditions, with and without traffic, to make this manual-transmission driving thing second nature. And once you’re there, you can start learning the joys of rev-matching, and one day, maybe, perform a perfect heel-toe downshift.

Nauraushaun > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/21/2016 at 17:37

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Cool! Don’t forget to practise those hill starts too. One day you’re going to be sat on a hill with some guy parked way too close - you can’t avoid them forever.

Sounds like you’ve got it down.

AM3R shamefully returns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/21/2016 at 22:33

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I’ll definitely check those out. Do you have experience with those tires? How's the sidewall? My only gripe about the DWS is how soft they are. Great for daily driving, but takes away some of the sharpness of the initial turn in response.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > AM3R shamefully returns 06/21/2016 at 23:41

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Unfortunately no personal experience with them. I remember a few Oppos a while back had a thread on the A/S 3s though. I can’t remember but it was one of the opponauts with an e90 M3.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 06/21/2016 at 23:44

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That’s the plan. This car will eventually turn into my daily as I hand over my current car to my brother. I’m just trying to get up to make sure I can drive it decently before I start using it to get to work since my commute is full of traffic.

AM3R shamefully returns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/22/2016 at 00:37

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I'll search for that post. Anyways how much fun has the BRZ been so far?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > AM3R shamefully returns 06/22/2016 at 00:50

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The BRZ has been pretty awesome in terms of handling. Of course I’ve mostly been puttering around my neighborhood while learning to drive it. The steering is super tight and the brakes are solid. The suspension feels firm yet supple enough for rough roads. Of course my reference point is my current daily which is a 16 year old car with worn out bushings and almost 200k miles.

I’ve never had a lot of the features the BRZ has too like keyless start and access. Even the bluetooth radio is amazing to me. It also never sank in for me how low and small the BRZ actually is until I had to climb into it in my garage. There’s so much more room in the garage now compared to my current daily since it’s a full 2 feet shorter and the roof ends 5 inches lower. What’s funny is the BRZ has a super loud cold start. It revs to 1500rpm and then lets the car warm up a little bit before returning down to its normal idle.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/22/2016 at 09:28

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In heavy, slow traffic, you just have to learn to leave a little more room than you would with an automatic. I kind of make it a game - timing it just right, crawling along and seeing how long I can go without touching the clutch or brake. At just the right speed, you can also slowly let off the throttle and let it idle along. Probably best to try that last one in a parking lot first - ha!

Read this:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-pors…

AM3R shamefully returns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/22/2016 at 12:29

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Yeah they are small and low, but it's cool! My friend let me drive his around my street and it's just such a nice place to sit and drive. The shifting is probably my favorite part about it, just so precise and short.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > AM3R shamefully returns 06/22/2016 at 14:01

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Yeah, I love that it’s so small and low. I figured since I only ever have one passenger most of the time now that I should enjoy that while I can. Although what’s weird is because the beltline and rear quarter panel windows are so small it creates a weird illusion of being larger and taller than it is. Or at least that’s my perception.

Yeah, the shifter is quite short and I like that lot. My other reference point for a shifter is a bug-eye WRX and that thing had a semi-vague and super long throw.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 06/23/2016 at 00:53

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That’s a great tip. I’ve been practicing leaving room on my commute to work in my automatic to get used to it. I’ll have to give the idling part a try though. I just get nervous when the car hesitates and the DRLs flicker a little as it’s idling since it doesn’t have a lot of torque.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 06/23/2016 at 03:37

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Every car is different. You may only be able to pull off the idle trick on perfectly flat road or even a slight decline. It’s something I’ve done very infrequently, but it’s a cool feeling to have it in gear touching no pedal and the car moving along by itself, since usually in a manual having neither the clutch or throttle pedal in while you’re in gear at a low speed means you’re about to stall.

It’s also a trick leaving just enough room to crawl ahead but not too much to let someone cut you off - ha!